Server: KQM | Genshin Impact (763583452762734592) Channel: razorbeidouelectrotank (805911524051779615) Messages: 43 Yuehai Ticketing Secretary#4843 (557628352828014614) Aevean Leeow#1362 (123956634077757446) trash rat | mcdiona (denmax)#9293 (140866779894251520) Artifact#3832 (246828644159324160) Hail | Ayaka Waiting Room#2970 (256807114075275265) Artesians, MH Rise#0002 (185216727351558145) xf3 | close ur tickets#3123 (141941251350986752) Ayzel | ticketpocalypse#7399 (276182497145126912) Greyhound | Cryo Salesman#7836 (264018289359847424) KQM | Genshin Impact - razorbeidouelectrotank
KQM | Genshin Impact
43 messages
Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTFeb 1, 2021 9:24 PM
@Aevean Leeow Important things to note: - Check the TCL and the other opened tickets for duplicates - Upload your evidence in imgur / youtube - Use the template below for your submission. - Type $close when ready for review.
Theory/Finding/Bug: Evidence (Youtube/Imgur): Significance:
Aevean LeeowFeb 1, 2021 10:48 PM
Finding: In 1.2, to tank Electro DMG from an enemy of ANY level, without DR like eg XQ E, with unlimited resources, Razor and Beidou are the two choices. Depending on enemy level, one will be the superior choice. Initial thoughts: Razor has 80% Electro RES and I originally considered them the BiS Electro Tank. However, my enemy level infinity calcs for each enemy revealed that Beidou was superior at level infinity. The main reason is that there is no good transferrable shield for Electro dmg, as well as the fact that RES caps at 140%. The best Electro shield is Beidou counter, and the best transferrable Electro shield is C1 Beidou, which is around half the size of Beidou counter. Building Beidou as the tank/shielder in one allows for a much larger shield the more investments there are into HP, though she has less base DEF than razor. Thus, Beidou scales better with HP and Razor scales better with DEF. But due to the nature of the DEF formula, where the benefit of defense decreases with enemy level increases, HP outscales DEF, and thus Beidou should and does outscale Razor. Thus, I wanted to calculate the answer to questions such as when does Beidou outscale Razor, has Razor been outscaled from the very beginning, whats the best artifact/comp, etc.(edited)
Evidence/Methodology: I coded a program in Turing, dont recommend turing sucks lol Nevertheless, the program calculates the best possible combination of any variable (artifact choice, mainstat/substat, character, weapon, team, 4* choice on mixed rarity artifact sets) for a given enemy level. I had it increment enemy level by 1, and manipulated the loop exit statement manually to find important intervals (eg when does weapon change, when does character change) I also had the program print the EHP for Razor and Beidou up until they used max HP main/substats, to then plot it on desmos and extended their data points with a simple equation representing EHP, since at that point their stats would no longer change based on weapon or artifacts. Only EHP would change in respect to enemy level. This was done for visualization purposes of Razor vs Beidou.(edited)
Aevean LeeowFeb 1, 2021 11:11 PM
Results: Some relevant breakpoints are shown in the table below. Zhongli is used for his +25% shield strength a1 as support, ning is used for her c4 +10% elemental RES as support. Whiteblind Razor is BiS for enemy levels 1-894. Unforged Razor is BiS for enemy levels 895 to 1402. Unforged Beidou is BiS for enemy levels 1403+(edited)
This desmos graph visualizes Razor vs Beidou. Red is Razor, Blue is Beidou, purple is Beidou's asymptote, orange is Razor's asymptote. Y is effective HP, X is enemy level.
Aevean LeeowFeb 1, 2021 11:28 PM
Significance: For an arbitrary range of levels (1-100), assuming optimized builds w/o DR against Electro damage in the overworld, Razor during Q is tankier than Beidou holding counter. For this terribly impractical range of levels, 1 to 100, Razor's best weapon would be whiteblind, a c1 max HP build beidou for his shield, an A2 Zhongli to boost his shield%. He would take Thundersoother and Bolide, with 3 DEF% mainstats, 15 HP substats, and 10 DEF substats, prioritizing %HP/DEF substat choice over flat HP/DEF. In a less optimized setting, Razor benefits more than Beidou as his strongest point is the Electro RES%, which does not need to be built for. Beidou needs HP% to scale both herself and her shield. Thus, even if you totally failed artifact grinding and got a terrible mainstats for Razor like Atk%/Phys%/Crit or CritDmg, with little HP or DEF substats and instead unluckily rolled into Crit Rate or Crit Damage -- a really bad build in general -- Razor would still be tankier than Beidou. However, if the damage is spread out over time in smaller bursts, Beidou can mitigate the damage entirely with her counter more easily than Razor, though if Razor also has a shield he can do the same. If so, in this theoretical scenarios, healing from a support would be incredibly helpful. This is because in general, as long as your HP does not reach 0, regaining HP via healing will tend to make you live longer for inexplicable reasons. If DR is not banned, Beidou also has a large amount of DR, which scales very well with other sources of DR. In this case, stacking DR via beidou/xq/c6jean will eclipse traditional methods of taking damage, as damage reduction can be stacked to 100%.(edited)
Note that these conclusions are accurate only to 1.2. In 1.3, Zhongli's new shield will be stronger than Beidou's C1 shield for Electro damage. In fact, Razor's EHP at enemy level infinity will be greater than Beidou's EHP at enemy level infinity, or vs reaction type or monster skill effect damage. Thus, it is predicted that in 1.3, Razor will be the BiS tank at all enemy levels from 1 to infinity. These predictions are indeed true as of 1.3. Note that at some point in 1.3, the 140% RES cap was removed, and Razor becomes even better. Nevertheless, everyone in the game get absolutely btfo by c6 hu tao 200% res lul razor only undisputed bis tank for half a patch(edited)
trash rat | mcdiona (denmax)Feb 2, 2021 9:35 AM
ArtifactFeb 10, 2021 7:51 AM I translated most of your program into python, since I don't have a turing compiler handy. It would be nice to have some more documentation, since I don't know if it's working XD.
# hp is 0 def is 1 numarti/sub refer to num of hp main/sub not incl... is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.
Aevean LeeowFeb 11, 2021 5:27 AM
didnt do much documentation cuz honestly this i made it as a large tc shitpost kekqing
idk i have to rework it for 1.3 anyways for zhong shield
and also because i failed to realize qiqi c4 gives 20% atk reduce so thats an option
Hail | Ayaka Waiting RoomFeb 15, 2021 7:41 AM
Looking forward to your adjustments with Zhong Li keqw
trash rat | mcdiona (denmax)Feb 27, 2021 2:59 PM
Since it's been a while that we've been exposed to the 1.3 Zhongli buffs, do you think you'll be reworking this entry for that?
Artesians, MH RiseMar 1, 2021 7:07 AM
Do you think this has any implications for TC in general? Otherwise, I'll close it now, despite how much I laugh when I read it KEKW
Aevean LeeowMar 4, 2021 3:00 AM
Aevean LeeowMar 16, 2021 11:06 PM
1.3 update: c6 200% RES hu tao shit on both of razor and beidou's head(edited)
Aevean LeeowMar 16, 2021 11:21 PM
as for 1.2, even less relevant comparison can be made since razor wins at all positive levels, as stated in the end of the initial post, so there is little to elaborate beyond what was already stated either
ehh atk% reduction won't be considered since there is no guarantee you are able to debuff the enemy either
so guess this shitpost is done with
Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTMar 16, 2021 11:21 PM
Ticket Closed by @Aevean Leeow
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Aevean LeeowApr 22, 2021 1:05 AM
fixed the bolide +40% problem, should be accurate now
xf3 | close ur ticketsApr 25, 2021 8:14 PM
verified i think...
Aevean LeeowApr 25, 2021 8:15 PM
Ayzel | ticketpocalypseApr 25, 2021 8:17 PM
honestly do you still want to publish this
given that the answer to "how can i tank a hit" is basically universally "hu tao C6" now
Aevean LeeowApr 25, 2021 8:17 PM
why of course
how will you tank electro damage if you time travel to the past
Greyhound | Cryo SalesmanApr 25, 2021 8:18 PM
he means when they release wow genshin classic
Aevean LeeowApr 25, 2021 8:18 PM
without this knowledge i fear the electro slimes will overrun us
lol dont ask me if u want to publish it or not
Ayzel | ticketpocalypseApr 25, 2021 8:19 PM
lmao fair
Aevean LeeowApr 25, 2021 8:19 PM
i just wanted to practice a bit of coding since it was a while
Ayzel | ticketpocalypseApr 25, 2021 8:22 PM
personally I don't think there's much point in publishing this given Hu Tao C6 shitting on everyone else
maybe I'll "publish it" by just including a quick line in the Hu Tao guide that her C6 is the best technique for tanking stuff in the game
this is what I've decided is prob best lol
given that time travel is a bit hard to do
moving to publishing
Aevean LeeowApr 25, 2021 8:25 PM
time travel is easy, every 60 seconds a minute passes in africa
Ayzel | ticketpocalypseApr 27, 2021 8:06 AM
PR up
Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTApr 28, 2021 6:36 PM
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